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OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed

Views: 11798

Please accept my apologies for being offtopic. I have tried ... - Jul 01, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Maybe you should shoot for Wavemaster Larry ... - Jul 01, 2008 by John Smith  

And you guys wonder why he lingers around! ... - Jul 01, 2008 by Real Chunks  

OK, I'll bite. Who is wavemaster larry? Thansk for at lea... - Jul 01, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

If you want to know more do a �WML� search on this site I... - Jul 01, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

I'll do the search. We know its hard to find already, grin.... - Jul 01, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Have you considered developing your own wave solder super-tr... - Jul 01, 2008 by davef  

Hello, would you like people from Asia? Like Philippines? By... - Jul 02, 2008 by Grayman  

Arman, We are hoping to stay US, but would consider assisti... - Jul 02, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Thank you, ALL, who have read this ad and shown interest. I'... - Jul 02, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Wow, I should apply! As others state, wave solder engineers... - Jul 02, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

I have checked your website and your product is more on LED ... - Jul 02, 2008 by Grayman  

Hi, I might say I have some experience (1 year) in wave s... - Jul 03, 2008 by Andrzej  

Listen I noticed that my names being mentioned in a thread t... - Jul 03, 2008 by WaveMasterLarry  

Thx, L, but we are looking for a permanent staff member here... - Jul 03, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Hello WaveMaster Larry, I think you are very well knowledg... - Jul 03, 2008 by Grayman  

YES! Amercians are terrible people! I agree with you that ... - Jul 03, 2008 by Dr Shocker  

Be careful WaveMaster (inhisownmind) Larry, That's an awfu... - Jul 03, 2008 by A Very Frazzled Man  

Whats the money like, I would do anything to get away from t... - Jul 10, 2008 by BLT Circuit Services Ltd  

Mr. York, If serious, please visit our site and apply. Visa... - Jul 10, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Wow, so you guys require the Sheepskin huh? That'll be even... - Jul 10, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

Never said it was going to be an easy one to fill. :) Ser... - Jul 10, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

I have a tendency to agree with CK Experience and accomp... - Jul 10, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

Understood, BT. We're looking for both -- the analytical min... - Jul 10, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Amen to that Patrick. I am from a traditional Engineering b... - Jul 10, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

CK, I agree with you totally except for the �art� part. ... - Jul 10, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

Got to agree with CK and Patrick. A very brief career histor... - Jul 11, 2008 by Jon Hall  

Just a comment. I believed an excellent engineer can be prom... - Jul 11, 2008 by Grayman  

Obviously Grayman hasn't been around the block as much as he... - Jul 14, 2008 by Fastek  

Well, there's that (although it is kind of a gross generaliz... - Jul 14, 2008 by Steve Thomas  

SMTA has a job posting site: ... - Jul 14, 2008 by davef  

Grayman, I am of non-caucasian descent myself (an immigra... - Jul 14, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

Patrick...I'll give you a couple of examples. Wave Solder... - Jul 14, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

There are people who have abilities and skills to do and acc... - Jul 14, 2008 by Stephen  

Hi CK, Sorry but I have to correct you and I do understan... - Jul 14, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

Patrick... Contact LENGTH as in inches, mm, or cm...not... - Jul 14, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

CK, If the contact length with the wave is decreasing whe... - Jul 14, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

Contact length can only change > when you change one o... - Jul 14, 2008 by Stephen  

Pat, Try to run a glass plate (yeah I've used these befor... - Jul 14, 2008 by Dirk Nuendyke  

This document has relevance here. ... - Jul 14, 2008 by PeteC  

Stephen, Correct when focusing just on contact length and... - Jul 14, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

This could happen if your angle was wrong on the machine. If... - Jul 14, 2008 by BLT Circuit Services Ltd  

Hi Ck, Good engineers would dream of and want to have big s... - Jul 15, 2008 by Grayman  

Grayman, Respectfully, you are off base. Many US companies ... - Jul 15, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Ck, Just to make myself clear I am not at all questioning... - Jul 15, 2008 by Patrick Bruneel  

AMC, I believed that a promotion is an incentives and a p... - Jul 15, 2008 by Grayman  

Gray, For SOME employees, it is a promotion and a potential... - Jul 15, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

Thank you, all, for the honest and open discussion with just... - Jul 18, 2008 by Watchfire Signs  

"..with just a few small sidetracks" Which, when you thin... - Jul 18, 2008 by Steve Thomas  

Have any of you ever tried this with a glass plate? I see a... - Jul 21, 2008 by Real Chunks  

Art is something you hang on the walls. Science is what mak... - Jul 25, 2008 by WaveMasterLarry  


Watchfire Signs

#55297

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

Please accept my apologies for being offtopic. I have tried posting on the career center, and our job even appeared at the top of the most recent smtnet email newsletter. Still, we received essentially zero response.

I'm hoping maybe a post here might catch someone's attention who missed the job postings on the career boards...

We're a mid size company (250 employees) in the midwest at the leading edge of a fascinating cutting edge technology - digital billboards. We have tripled in size in the last 3 years and are on track to triple again in the next 5.

We had a strong process engineer focused on wavesolder who got a good setup in place for us, but then moved away for family reasons. Our technicians have done well at maintaining what he began, but we are looking to add a strong permanent team member to take us to the next level and to improve all our processes but with a strong focus upon wavesolder.

More details and info on who we are can be found at watchfiresigns.com under careers. We have an excellent benefits package, a great culture with partial ownership that is here and involved every day, vertical integration through our entire product line, and a generous relo package is available to the right candidate.

Moderator, one last please. Please take pity on my struggling search and leave the post live at least for a few days for me, pretty please? Please help us try to fill this crucial role which has been vacant too long.

Sincerely, AnnMarie Cross Recruiter watchfiresigns.com 217-431-9487 direct line annmarie.cross (at) watchfiresigns (dot) com

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John Smith

#55298

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

Maybe you should shoot for Wavemaster Larry

reply »


Real Chunks

#55304

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

And you guys wonder why he lingers around!

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Watchfire Signs

#55305

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

OK, I'll bite. Who is wavemaster larry?

Thansk for at least looking at the posting, gentlemen...

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Patrick Bruneel

#55308

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

If you want to know more do a �WML� search on this site

I hate to tell you but what you�re looking for will be hard to find.

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Watchfire Signs

#55313

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

I'll do the search. We know its hard to find already, grin...hence the post. Hoping someone will know someone who will know someone.

Again, thanks much for your time and for not bashing me thoroughly.

AMC

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davef

#55316

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 1 July, 2008

Have you considered developing your own wave solder super-trooper? * Training course at your equipmemt supplier or daylong on-site training by equipment supplier field service * Training at ACI / EMPF or someplace like that * On-line training at a place like BEST solder.net, EMS Science emsciences.com, or University of Bolton ami.ac.uk

You'd want the course to cover things like: * Machine setup * Machine operation * Troubleshooting * Maintenance * Safety * Statistical methods like SPC, Design of Experiments ... and stuff like that

We have no relationship, nor receive benefit from the company referenced above.

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Grayman

#55320

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 2 July, 2008

Hello, would you like people from Asia? Like Philippines? By the way, what solder wave machine do you use?

Arman

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Watchfire Signs

#55333

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 2 July, 2008

Arman, We are hoping to stay US, but would consider assisting with a Visa to get the right candidate.

To clarify, we have a TECHNICIAN who does a very nice job of fixing basic problems, but DOE/Cause and Effect/new product engineering recommendations, those sorts of approaches are what we're looking to gain with an experienced process engineer.

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Watchfire Signs

#55337

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 2 July, 2008

Thank you, ALL, who have read this ad and shown interest. I've had a few common questions, so thought I might answer them here..

We are in Danville, IL -- 1.5 hours from Indy, 3 hours from Chicago, just 20 minutes from University of Illinois and its city, Champaign/Urbana. Rural farming communities all around this small city. Fantastic small places to raise your kids. Also, several more 'yuppyish' if you will bedroom communities in the area for those looking for that type of environment.

Cost of living is EXTREMELY low here, particularly housing. You'd be amazed -- my family just purchased a 43 acre horse farm with outbuildings, rolling pastures and creek, and a nice small house for under $150k. Excellent school district, 25 minute commute to the office with all but zero traffic.

Our product line is pretty cool as well. Cutting edge technology creating everything from the small time/temp sign at your local bank to full sized digital billboards starting to pop up across the country. Our PBCA is modern, built just 3 years ago, and our vertical integration gives us so much control and flexibility.

We are NOT riddled with nightmare problems with our processes; we are looking to bring in talent who can show us how to improve, optimize, and to get the best initial setup every time we have a new product design coming along.

Small company atmosphere with under 250 employees. Comp president and hr director are partial owners and are here every day, which has such an effect on the staff's investment in THEIR work. Respectful benefits such as a sick time policy of "if you're sick stay home" rather than xx hours per year prorated yada yada.

OK, I'm done rambling. Thanks for reading this far, if you have. And thanks for referring anyone you might know...watchfiresigns.com.

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55339

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 2 July, 2008

Wow, I should apply! As others state, wave solder engineers are a dying breed - believe me, I've been doing it for over 15 years. Often times, a very THANKLESS job. People who've never "dealt" with wave think that it's "easy"...c'mon a board travels over molten solder and thousands of solder joints are created...how hard can that be? Many don't understand the artform, and yeah, like other soldering processes, the wave is easy to blame.

But..no, I'm not interested in applying. I'd rather stay close to the city. Rural Illinois isn't where I'd wanna be.

WML...where are you??!!

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Grayman

#55348

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 2 July, 2008

I have checked your website and your product is more on LED signage. Wow! This product is very good to market. Anybody from your sales department can contact me for marketing of your product. My focus is in Asia.

I will ask my former engineers who has vast experience in solder wave to contact your company.

Arman

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Andrzej

#55353

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

Hi,

I might say I have some experience (1 year) in wave soldering. Yes I have set all parameters to run PCBs through wave solder. Yes, I have run new products on wave solder and had to find solutions for problems encountered. I understand relationships between parameters which has influence on wave soldering. I have some experience in SAC305 as well and I took a lead part to launch wave on SN100C solder alloy. I worked on ERSA-330 wavesolder and ERSA-500. Problem is I am in Europe (Poland) and there are many barriers to overcome to finally arrive and work for your company. All I can say better try to find somebody in local area. If you do not fear all problems I could consider your offer.

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WaveMasterLarry

#55356

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

Listen I noticed that my names being mentioned in a thread thats related to wave soldering. Im glad that I can attract the attention of a recruiter on a nation wide forum. As some of you know I boycotted this site due to censorship from the meditators but Im making this one acception to respond and possibly help an upstart company in the country, I mentioned before that ive done extencsive consultancy work in the Far East regions of the world � China to be exact. I made up my mind in my career to work as an indapendant contractor and not so much in a company as a permanent employee.its great experience but has its draw-backs.like for example internet access is tough from my RV so it�s tough to get access to email and things of that nature. I was able to use the PC�S provided at last week Vette show. right now im at my local diners computer. I am fed up with company politics. The engineers at my former place of employement never listened to me and from what I gather there wave process has gone down the toilet.the offer I�m making is you can contact me at my email address WaveMasterLarry@yahoo.com and I�ll come take a ganders in the great state of illinoise. Not too sure about this fellow Grayman if he can be of any help with all the immigration problems of a worker from the far east trying to gain employment here. I knew a Philippino fella who got deported. I�ll have no such problems and again, I have over 12 years of experience in all matters wave related with a degree from Soltec College.we will discuss my rates but I my initial offer to you is USD $42 an hour.

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Watchfire Signs

#55358

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

Thx, L, but we are looking for a permanent staff member here at our facility to optimize first our wavesolder, then other areas of our processes. Things are running well as they are today; we are simply looking to improve.

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Grayman

#55360

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

Hello WaveMaster Larry, I think you are very well knowledgeable in wave machine or process. However, I think the reason why your former company won�t listen to you is because you also never listen to your people. I think you overlooked the saying �No one is master of all things�. I have gain 14 years in wave soldering and went to many seminars and written some technical papers regarding wave soldering machines. I have handled Vitronics, Koki, Tamura and Ersa wave solder machine. I have processed billions of complicated boards and started many evaluation and all of them pass. The reasons why many of American companies get foreign employees are cost and attitudes. Most of you won�t work overtime and rather want to drink beer and relax. Check your beer belly and tell me how big it is. Filipinos can work very well and they won�t ask for big salary. Actually, at the age of 36 I am now content with what I have. I have 4 companies and currently making more. I went out of the box of being an employee. I love America, I love McDonalds and I love President Bush and future President Obama. To God Be the Glory!

I will give you my former best engineer for wave machine. Please send me an e-mail to arman_fuerte@hotmail.com

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Dr Shocker

#55368

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

YES! Amercians are terrible people! I agree with you that we should take over America jobs because they are fat and lazy. I know some that arew so lazy they don't tie their shoes!

PS you cannot love God and Obama at the same time. Two differnet religions.

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A Very Frazzled Man

#55370

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 3 July, 2008

Be careful WaveMaster (inhisownmind) Larry, That's an awful High Horse you're sitting on. That fall is gonna be brutal!!

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BLT Circuit Services Ltd

#55448

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Whats the money like, I would do anything to get away from the Bureaucrats from Brussels running our country.

Best regards Greg York

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Watchfire Signs

#55450

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Mr. York, If serious, please visit our site and apply. Visa assistance will be considered for the right candidate. Bachelors degree required.

Thank you, watchfiresigns.com

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55454

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Wow, so you guys require the Sheepskin huh? That'll be even HARDER to find.

Alot of guys in this racket are non-degree'd, but have worked their ways up the ranks.

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Watchfire Signs

#55455

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Never said it was going to be an easy one to fill. :)

Seriously, we have a strong process technician on staff now. we have had a degreed engineer previously when we originally built the facility, and are seeking the engineer's mindset and education combination into this role now.

Thanks for the continued discussion, AMC

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Patrick Bruneel

#55456

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

I have a tendency to agree with CK

Experience and accomplishments in wave soldering are more valuable then the degree. Remember wave soldering is not taught in school although it is a vital process in the electronics assembly. The quality and reliability of your products is as good as the worst solder joint.

It takes a lot longer to fully understand the physics and dynamics of wave soldering and soldering in general then it takes to learn SPC, DOE, Pareto, fishbone and other analyses.

My 2 cents

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Watchfire Signs

#55457

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Understood, BT. We're looking for both -- the analytical mind and educational training of the degreed engineer AND the experience in wavesolder. If it was an easy match to find, I wouldn't be bothering you great guys!!! :)

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55458

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

Amen to that Patrick. I am from a traditional Engineering background myself - they never taught wave solder in school. My curriculum was mostly theory and labs.

When I got out, I read all the soldering books available at the time and also watched some videos from IPC. So I knew all the concepts..wetting, eutectic, phase diagrams, etc... So now, here I am armed with theoretical knowledge....now, the hard part...learning the art-form that we call wave soldering.

I would have to say, by the mid-to-late 1990's, most of these "top notch" Engineers thought wave to be dirty and a soon-to-be-obsolete process. Wave was supposed to die about 15 years ago. So, most these guys gravitated to SMT Placement machines..."the cool stuff."

Needless to say, the candidate you're looking for will be hard to find. You might be best off recruiting from an engineering college, and getting a kid that'll "cut his teeth" in wave soldering.

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Patrick Bruneel

#55459

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 10 July, 2008

CK,

I agree with you totally except for the �art� part. Soldering is a �science� of primary physics in nature.

The European commission also looked at soldering as art (not science) and thought that RoHS would just change the materials the artist had to work with.

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Jon Hall

#55475

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 11 July, 2008

Got to agree with CK and Patrick. A very brief career history:

1992 Engineering Apprenticeship 1994 Job as a Temp, placing components in a local electronics firm 1996 Made perminant Process Tech through experience gained 1998 A year selling solder and consumables, found I was no Salesman! 1999 Took a job as a European Robotics Service Engineer for an Automation Company 2001 Moved to the US (AL) on a Visa as a Service and Project Engineer 2003 Took the job of Process Engineer at my current employment back here in the UK

Quickly thrown in at the deep end when the flowsolder 'man' here retired. Gained extra knowledge in wavesoldering pretty fast. Spearheaded the introduation of Lead free manufacture including purchasing a new VS Delta. New machine + new process = headache. Now both wavesolder machines are singing and the processes nailed down. In a team of 4 Engineers and 4 Techs I deal with all Wavesolder, Hand Solder and Materials amongst other things.

However.. and here's the point, I don't have a Degree. It is of course up to you if this is a requirement, but I think experience counts for alot.

How about taking your Process Technician who let's face it, knows your machine, processes and products probably more than anyone, training him further on SPC, problem solving, etc. to meet your job description of Process Engineer. Then get him to train another Process Technician.

That is my two pence worth.

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Grayman

#55484

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 11 July, 2008

Just a comment. I believed an excellent engineer can be promoted to a higher position. There are only few engineers has the skill, educational background and the ability to handle people. I believed that an engineer who has this talent must be promoted to a managerial position. WHY ON EARTH you guys have been working on the industry for many years now and still at the bottom?

This is my 60 cents....

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Fastek

#55490

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Obviously Grayman hasn't been around the block as much as he claims..........engineers make horrible managers for the most part. It's part of their nature.

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Steve Thomas

#55492

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Well, there's that (although it is kind of a gross generalization), plus if an engineer is so great at engineering, maybe he (or she...not the place for gross generalizations!) LIKES what he/she is doing. Promoting someone that doesn't really want the job is a bad move, and so is promoting someone beyond their level of competency (just as Peter).

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davef

#55494

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

SMTA has a job posting site: http://www.smta.org/news/job_listings/job_listings.cfm

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55495

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Grayman,

I am of non-caucasian descent myself (an immigrant), and you are WAY off base on how the corporate structure here in America works. As others state, Engineers CHOOSE to stay Engineers and GOOD Engineers have no aspirations for upper management. Here in corporate America, too much "demonstrated" technical knowledge will actually hold you down...you may make it to a lower-level Supervisor rank at best. Managers here in the US generally have made a conscious effort to stay away from any and all things technical....the American comic strip, "Dilbert" and movies like "Office Space" were made for this very reason.

Shame on you, Grayman...That was a very poor generalization on your part, and obviously you haven't "been around the block" here in America. Maybe that's the way things work in the Philippines, but not here!

My 2 "centabos"...

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55496

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Patrick...I'll give you a couple of examples.

Wave Soldering, the Science:

you're getting solder shorts and you slow your belt speed down just a bit knowing that this effectively lowers your contact length and improves your peel-back for that tough 25-mil pitch connector that's going in the wrong orientation due to poor design.

Wave Soldering, the Art:

You turn that same board 180�, connector is still going in that same orientation, but the shorts go away.

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Stephen

#55497

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

There are people who have abilities and skills to do and accomplish things. These people must do the things they can do. Some people do not have such skills and abilities. They must be put in charge (what else can they do).

I've known management that seemed to think that anyone that wasn't a manager, wasn't a manager because they weren't good enough. But not everyone wants to be a manager.

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Patrick Bruneel

#55500

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Hi CK,

Sorry but I have to correct you and I do understand it is Monday today.

A. If you decrease the conveyer speed you increase the contact time with the wave. B. If you would know why a 180 Deg orientation change makes such a dramatic difference we would be back to �science�

Have a great day, Patrick

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55503

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Patrick...

Contact LENGTH as in inches, mm, or cm...not time..is decreased with a slower belt speed. The slower the speed, the less contact LENGTH with the wave per unit time ...whereas at a faster speed, your leads are contacting more solder, the faster that you go.

Mathematically, CONTACT LENGTH = CONVEYOR SPEED X DWELL TIME...so, if you're going 0.5"/second x 2 seconds Dwell, you get 1" of contact length with the wave... now, both the pump speed/wave height AND conveyor speed will affect your dwell time too.... a good wave guy can look at the wave/finger relationship and "just know" what tweaks to make (again, the artform)....

...now getting back to artform... This same PCB where turning it 180 deg. might work in July, but this fix may stop working in September. Now, a more scientific explanation can be.... the part of the wave where the connector ended up at when turned 180 produced less contact length....

Well, we can argue science vs. art 'til we're blue in the face...betcha Watchfire would like the 2 of us to "duke it out" for the job. Where's WML now when we need him?? LOL

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Patrick Bruneel

#55504

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

CK,

If the contact length with the wave is decreasing when decreasing the conveyer speed and visa versa you need to check the machines electrical or electronics something is very wrong. Contact length is determent by wave design, wave height, conveyer angle and immersion dept of the board. Contact length can only change when you change one of previous mentioned parameters. Contact length with the board should never change when the conveyer speed is changed, only contact time should change. Contact time will be longer when the board travels slower and shorter with faster conveyor speed.

Soldering defects are not seasonal when your soldering process is properly controlled (even WML knows that). When the process engineer does his job you would expect to see fewer defects in September compared to July.

We don�t have to duke anything out just get things straight it�s a technical forum.

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Stephen

#55505

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Contact length can only change > when you change one of previous mentioned > parameters. Contact length with the board should > never change when the conveyer speed is changed, > only contact time should change.

If I understand correctly then if you change nothing else, dwell time would change with the speed and keep the contact length the same. I take it that that is your understanding as well?

And I just noticed the username of the original poster. Everytime I meet a wavesolder operator or a former wave solder operator I ask if they have a fire story. Most do.

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Dirk Nuendyke

#55506

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Pat,

Try to run a glass plate (yeah I've used these before too), keep your wave pump speed the same, and slow down your conveyor speed. You will find the actual contact between molten solder and the 0.5" grids to be LESS vs. a faster conveyor speed. Then try the opposite scenario. Speed it up a bunch and notice that the molten solder makes greater contact (more grids) as it traverses the wave.

It's the mechanics of wave contact and peelback. When the PCB/Glass Plate or anything traverses over that molten solder, and at a faster velocity, the solder will want to "stick" (and not peel back right away) to that substrate and the amount is longer (in length) the faster that you go, and again, shorter (in length) with the slower speed scenario. That is why - time and time again - when I get solder shorts, I will slow things down in small increments and the shorts disappear with certain assemblies. Further, dwell time plays a factor in this as well, but I think the conveyor speed has more to do with the peelback mechanics.

True - wave pump speed, shape, and conveyor angle also play factors in peelback mechanics - but the only 2 variables you, the Process Engineer, can change immediately are wave pump speed and conveyor speed - both significantly affect peelback mechanics, wave contact length, and of course contact time. And of course, lets not forget flux deposition and preheat.

I have hands-on experience with both scenarios above. About the same amount of experience (in total years) as WML, sad to say.....

Healthy debate, though, Pat. I was just kidding about duking it out. Just trying to add some levity to this technical discussion...

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PeteC

#55507

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

This document has relevance here.

Attachments:

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Patrick Bruneel

#55508

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

Stephen,

Correct when focusing just on contact length and time only contact time should change when changing the conveyer speed (when the machine is in good operating condition).

Changing the conveyer speed changes a lot more parameters like:

*Flux deposit (if the fluxer is not a separate unit). *Board preheat temp. *Time the solder has to peel back from the board. * Cooling ratio.

Fire in soldering machines only happens with serious neglects. I had one fire in my whole soldering career 30+ years. I had to scoop out the solder and removed the whole wave assembly including the thermocouple controlling the solder temp. I had the clock set to reach 250C by 5:00 AM and overslept to arrive at 7:00AM with the fire truck in front of the company. The good thing is the machine didn�t lose 1 min of production.

Oh and by the way I was very young when that happen't.

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BLT Circuit Services Ltd

#55509

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 14 July, 2008

This could happen if your angle was wrong on the machine. If its a Chinese machine then probably 4 - 5 Deg. With the wrong angle the solder will only drain in one direction instead of both. cheers greg

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Grayman

#55513

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 15 July, 2008

Hi Ck, Good engineers would dream of and want to have big salaries, car plan and others and I believed only technical managers or managers would get. Though, I have not yet visited USA but I know you have the same business system as ours. We, Filipinos follow some of USA systems. CK, if you are working in a company for many years now let say 10 years, would you like to be promoted and be well compensated than your current position? Managers are not born they are made. If you are not capable of handling people would you be promoted? I believed USA firms also follow promotion system. If this is not true maybe you are not working on an equal opportunity company like INTEL, Microsoft and others.

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Watchfire Signs

#55514

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 15 July, 2008

Grayman, Respectfully, you are off base. Many US companies pay their best engineers FAR more than any managers other than their executive VPs. Exceptional tchnical skill, absent management ability, IS rewarded VERY highly here in the US. in the past american companies made your mistake, and found that they were making their finest talent absolutely miserable by forcing them to lead when they wanted to DO.

It is a rare few who are truly exceptional engineers AND have the ability and desire to both lead and teach others to be similarly exceptional engineers.

AMC

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Patrick Bruneel

#55518

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 15 July, 2008

Ck,

Just to make myself clear I am not at all questioning your observations. What am trying to make clear is that when your wave contact area changes when the PC board or glass plate traveling speed is changed, something is wrong!!!

Also an 180Deg board orientation change shouldn�t make a difference unless the wave dynamics change between the front side of the board entering the wave and trailing side leaving the wave. The things you need to check are:

A. Is your solder wave set-up with the proper wave dynamics (check the links below last chapter wave setup and wave dynamics). I suspect your solder wave backflow is too fast creating drag with increased PC board velocity. http://www.interfluxusa.com/Technical/No-Residue_implementation.htm

http://www.interfluxusa.com/Technical/No-Residue_Paper.htm

B. If your conveyer has v shaped fingers the glass plate (a lot thicker then a PC board) is traveling deeper trough the wave then the PC board would, creating a much faster backflow. When your conveyer has L shaped fingers this is a non issue.

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Grayman

#55522

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 15 July, 2008

AMC,

I believed that a promotion is an incentives and a privilege from the company. How do you recognize your people? I have also worked with an American company and they provide promotions to well deserving employee. Yes, you are correct, my pay was higher than my manager, and the reason was I have worked with the company for several years ahead of my manager. However, when he found out that my salary was higher than his getting he resigned and look for other high paying job.

In my own understanding, promoted engineer to a higher position is really a motivational plus factor to an engineer working with a company who invested many years working with the company. As I mentioned, managers are not born they are made.

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Watchfire Signs

#55525

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 15 July, 2008

Gray, For SOME employees, it is a promotion and a potential career paths. in MANY cases, people truly ARE born (or raised) leaders and while they are not briliant engineers, they are GREAT at helping brilliant engineers do their best work and work with others who dont quite undrestand the mind of an engineer.

Our engineers are often promoted internally, from one level of engineering task to another, from one team to another. IF they have the skill and the interest in becoming managers, of course that is a consideration, but my point is that it often is NOT the best option either for the company -- who is losing one of its greatest design minds - or for the employee -- who feels far less fulfilled guiding others' projects than doing his own.

In those types of cases, you look for other ways to fulfill that engineer instead of promoting to a manager job that takes away his feeling of success -- you give them special projects, let them have more PROJECT management responsibilities, and so on.

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Watchfire Signs

#55592

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 18 July, 2008

Thank you, all, for the honest and open discussion with just a few small sidetracks.

We have had several people apply which I believe became aware of the opening thanks to this post. I can't thank you all enough for that.

We are still searching but have several candidates now that we at least have some discussion rolling.

Again, thank you all for your time and your honest input.

AMC watchfiresigns.com

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Steve Thomas

#55598

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 18 July, 2008

"..with just a few small sidetracks"

Which, when you think about it, isn't bad considering it was off-topic for the forum to begin with. :P

Just pullin' yer leg. Good luck finding the Holy Grail of Wave Solder Process Dudes/Dudettes.

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Real Chunks

#55606

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 21 July, 2008

Have any of you ever tried this with a glass plate? I see a lot of white papers, but no actual evidence. Now that we can post pix, I'd think someone would do post their evidence.

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WaveMasterLarry

#55696

OT: Wavesolder Process Engineer Needed | 25 July, 2008

Art is something you hang on the walls. Science is what makes rockets go up. Soldering is just soldering. It's technical. Kinda like saying your doctor is a surgen. They're not the same people but some of the things they do looks the same, yet two differnet types of procedures that could form the untrained eye look very much a like. Besides, running your board at 180 degrees is way too cold.

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