Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.

SMTnet
»
Electronics Forum
»
Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines

Subscribe to Thread

Views: 12509

Hello, I am a new comer and working for a contract manufa... - Jul 25, 2017 by John

Hello John, the answer of your question is more organizat... - Jul 25, 2017 by Evtimov

Hello Evtimov, Thank you for your advice. Each job/custom... - Jul 25, 2017 by John

BTW, is there any parts package library which can be importe... - Jul 25, 2017 by John

John, programming can be done easier, but you have to pay... - Jul 25, 2017 by Evtimov

Thank you Evtimov. ... - Jul 25, 2017 by John

TL;DR: I like internal part numbering systems for passive c... - Jul 26, 2017 by dontfeedphils

Hi Phil, Thank you for your advice. Yes, the handling of ... - Jul 26, 2017 by John

hi john we have software that we been selling for over 3... - Jul 26, 2017 by Richard Larue

Hi Evtimov and Phil, May I ask you how programming is acc... - Jul 31, 2017 by John

John, contemporary machines provide their own software fo... - Jul 31, 2017 by Evtimov

Another commercial tool is Valor MSS Process Preparation fro... - Aug 01, 2017 by josh

Our Engineering team handles all initial programming and deb... - Aug 01, 2017 by dontfeedphils

Hi, Evtimov, Jose and Phil, Thank you so much for your co... - Aug 01, 2017 by John

Good morning, I looked one cycle of programming of Koh Yo... - Aug 04, 2017 by John

And is Mentor Expert file same with Mentor Neutral file form... - Aug 04, 2017 by John

Koh Young can also import ODB++ files, ALL major EDA tools o... - Aug 05, 2017 by josh

Thank you Josh. ... - Aug 07, 2017 by John

thanks ... - Aug 08, 2017 by trice001

Hi, We have solutions for your problem that used by many ... - Aug 10, 2017 by Alexei Shkolnik

Hi Alexei, Thank you for your introduction and I will sen... - Aug 10, 2017 by John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

Hello,

I am a new comer and working for a contract manufacturer as an engineer. My company handles many prototype jobs from new customers, and most customers do not give us CAD file. We receive Gerber, XY and BOM from customers. So every single job has different part numbers scheme, and we should create part library for almost all parts for all jobs. If there any solution to minimize our programming time for Pick & Place machines and AOI machines ? Your advice will be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

Hello John,

the answer of your question is more organizational than technical. Most CEM use their own part number system(you will need to purchase software for that), and that is exactly what you want to do.You can have 5 different resistors 10kOhm under the same part number. Even this system has flows, as some customers approve only Panasonic part - which means you might need to have 5 part numbers for the 10k resistor as well. All will be based on your customer base and their part requirements - would they let you use different AVLs(active vendor list) or not. I hope this helps.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

Hello Evtimov,

Thank you for your advice. Each job/customer has different and most of them don't supply AVLs. So you mean that there is no way to make programming easier. right ?

Have a good one. John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

BTW, is there any parts package library which can be imported to JUKI Pick & Place machines ?

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

John,

programming can be done easier, but you have to pay the price somewhere. I would recommend using the following sequence if you see a lot of new products all the time.

1. Use your own part number system. With these numbers you will fill up your Pick and place and AOI libraries. 2. Use software to create your model(here you will need CAD data for PCBs with many placements). I used CircuitCAM(now Factory Logix), but there are several good systems like that on the market. Once you create this model, you have all the information that you need to program all your equipment. 3. Program each individual machine using data from your model.

Benefits of doing that are a lot:

1. Clean Repeatable process 2. Documentation - comes from the system that you will be using together with BOM, Reference Designators, part numbers .... 3. All parts and coordinates will come straight from you model, so your programs will be identical to the original documentation. 4. Easy revision change 5. Quick machine programming 6. You can do most of it on your desk.

Conns:

1. You need software for creating models 2. You need to spent time creating models - and that is where you will lose time.However this time will be spent in front.

This way is very good to maintain proper process of creating your programs and keep everything pretty and organized. However, there is cost into it.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 25 July, 2017

Thank you Evtimov.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 26 July, 2017

TL;DR: I like internal part numbering systems for passive chips and the like, and keeping MPNs for active components (or components with many variants and/or options that could be easily confused as equivalents).

I've always been a fan of internal part number systems for passives as they're fairly simple, and leaving everything else as manufacturer part numbers (keeps any guess-work as to which ICs or active components are the same out of the equation). It's very easy for someone inexperienced to load a MPN into your MRP system as the wrong IPN, after that's done just cross your fingers that the build you just ran with the wrong MPN isn't high volume or multiple placements of that part.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 26 July, 2017

Hi Phil,

Thank you for your advice. Yes, the handling of part numbers looks the key.

Have a good one. John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 26 July, 2017

hi john

we have software that we been selling for over 30 years now that programs Pick&Place and AOI machines, etc. from Gerber only data, CAD data or XY rotation files and BOM files. Here are a couple of links:

*** ProntoPLACE - Assembly machine programming *** Link: User Manual http://www.unisoft-cim.com/place_download.htm#SETUP_THE_ASSEMBLY_MACHINE Link: Video Clip Link: Full ProntoPLACE Video Link: ProntoPLACE webpage Link: Crosschecking PCB component footprint & BOM footprint

*** ProntoAOI - AOI inspection machine programming *** Link: User Manual http://www.unisoft-cim.com/aoi_download.htm#CREATE_THE_OUTPUT_FILE_USED_TO_SETUP_THE_AOI_MACHINE Link: Full ProntoAOI Video Link: ProntoAOI webpage

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 31 July, 2017

Hi Evtimov and Phil,

May I ask you how programming is accomplished at your side ?

Do you have specific programmers dedicated to each P&P, AOI, Flying Probe, and Conformal coating machines ? Or one programmer handles programming for all machines per job ?

Who does program machines ? Technician at Engineering team ? or any other department ?

I know that it should be varied depending on each job, BTW, how many programming jobs are assigned to a programmer per day ?

Your advice will help me to consider a plan to re-organize programming tasks for future jobs.

Have a good one. John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 31 July, 2017

John,

contemporary machines provide their own software for programming - most you can do completely offline. There are several tricks here:

1. Design libraries correctly - you should have polarity convention that matches your P&P and your AOI machines. 2. Have your placement file prepared in front - as I mentioned in earlier post you will need a software for that.In this file your coordinates and poalrities will be already correct, so there is nothing to fix later on the machine. 3. Use gerber data to measure fiducials.

I used to have one person dedicated to do this full time for NPI, but that really depends on the work load that you have. Includes new product model and documentation creation, new programs for P&P and AOI/SPI,Selective solder processing ECOs and BCNs, and some other long term projects to fill their time completely. If you don't that much work to keep them busy 40hours, it should be a person with some other responsibilities as well.Could be engineer or technician with enough skills for the job. Most of all should be a detail oriented person, because all the production will depend on that.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 1 August, 2017

Another commercial tool is Valor MSS Process Preparation from Mentor-Siemens (Valor), can handle Gerber, PnP, ODB++, Native CAD ASCII Files, BOM and CAD Merge, SMT Pn Programming, AOI exports , DFT Engineering - ICT/Flying Probe programming, Stencil Engineering , Documentation and Manual Assembly Planing. Also advanced DFM Analysis feature. System is scalable and can get what tools in tool box you need...

Data needs for programming equipment is dictated by what is needed. If just SMT and seed file for AOI, BOM and PnP and maybe gerber. If want to do Testing Output you need more complex software that can guide you how best to attack a PCB for testing, this needs CAD data - ODB++ data plus BOM , not just basic gerber and PnP to get best NPI flow.

So in summary there are software tools that can cover all NPI flow and generate a digital data model that can be used in many ways, saving time and catching issues more quickly. Valor MSS Process Preparation from my experience is the most comprehensive package for coverage for NPI Engineering needs.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 1 August, 2017

Our Engineering team handles all initial programming and debugging of programs on the floor, with a person "specializing" in a certain area, but with all Engineers cross-trained well enough to take on the job if need be.

Technicians are responsible for making higher level changes to programs and how the machines run, but these privileges vary based on experience and how much we trust the person.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 1 August, 2017

Hi, Evtimov, Jose and Phil,

Thank you so much for your comments and advice. They are good guidance to me about programming at the company.

Have a good one. John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 4 August, 2017

Good morning,

I looked one cycle of programming of Koh Young 3D AOI machine first, and will do same thing for JUKI Pick & Place and Mechatronic 2D AOI machine soon.

BTW, I found from User manual of Koh Young 3D AOI that it allowed Mento Export files as input data.

May I ask what information is in Mento Export file format ? Does it include components package information as well ? So we don't need to add component library to the Koh young component library at AOI machine ?

Thanks in advance. John

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 4 August, 2017

And is Mentor Expert file same with Mentor Neutral file format ?

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 5 August, 2017

Koh Young can also import ODB++ files, ALL major EDA tools offer ODB++ export, Mentor EDA tools for sure, Cadence, Altium, Zuken all offer ODB++ export...This has Part entities included as well as graphic data etc - is a full product data model. Can be used for SPI/AOI/SMT/TEST etc

I think Koh Young has ODB++ import function.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 7 August, 2017

Thank you Josh.

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 8 August, 2017

thanks

Alexei Shkolnik

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 10 August, 2017

Hi,

We have solutions for your problem that used by many our customers. You can read about our tooling products (see QPlace, QPlace UPD and QPlan) on our website: http://www.proventustech.com.

Also you can contact me through email: alexeis@proventustech.com

Best Regards, Alexei

Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines | 10 August, 2017

Hi Alexei,

Thank you for your introduction and I will send you an e-mail with a few questions.

Thanks, John

SMTnet
»
Electronics Forum
»
Programming for Pick & Place and AOI machines

TIM & Thermal Gap Filler Dispensing - Download our new guide for process considerations and popular configurations.

Best Reflow Oven

Nozzles, Feeders, Spare Parts - Siemens, Fuji, Juki, Yamaha, etc...

© 1995-2025 SMTnet

Vacuum Reflow Soldering

Now Online

466
Visitors

0
Member

Who are SMTnet visitors?

Become a member now and receive the value and benefits of membership.

pressure curing ovens

Formic Reflow Soldering

Sell Used SMT & Test Equipment