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Buying a new Reflow Oven

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#83069

Buying a new Reflow | 25 July, 2019

Currently in the market for a new Reflow Oven from a UK supplier. Are there any brands/suppliers our there I need to talk to that I may have missed?

Low volume High mix very varied work, so looking at compact but super capable machines.

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#83077

Buying a new Reflow | 25 July, 2019

Hello,

We are a SMT&DIP machines factory.Last week we designed a new reflow oven, if you are interested, pls email us : vicky@obsmt.com.

Thanks!

With BR,

Vicky Gao

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#83079

Buying a new Reflow | 26 July, 2019

If its low volume maybe vapor phase desktop unit? I heard they work like magic and don't require any profiling.

Rehm is supposed to be the best brand especially in europe. Overbuilt and even better than Heller but not too popular in US.

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#83080

Buying a new Reflow | 26 July, 2019

We have enough volume/oversized products that batch vapor doesn't quite work. Once you move into the quasi inline or fully inline vapor system they become eye-wateringly expensive. Plus you get an entirely new process to learn, potentially increased tombstoning if pad designs aren't perfect (and as they aren't all our designs of course they are not ;) ) and you need a little extra care with electrolytics, although they have moved their position from "just don't" to "don't exceed these conditions". Buy one in a heartbeat for a 2nd line tho' allocate it do sensitive or special boards.

In the UK I think Asscon or IBL probably command the largest chunk of Vapor ovens.

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#83081

Buying a new Reflow | 26 July, 2019

I'd probably go Heller from previous experience, we had 11 at the last place and they were pretty bombproof and the UK support (Steve) is good. Avoid cheaper ovens with small zones and reduced heated lengths as that will restrict what you can do regarding profiling flexibility.

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#83082

Buying a new Reflow | 26 July, 2019

I've mostly been looking at the smallest oven in the range of the bigger ovens as it were. So that's the 1707 from Heller and similar sized units from elsewhere. However apparently Heller are apparently bring back the 1500 series in the form of a 1505-S, it doesn't appear on the website yet but they seem to think its remarkably capable for its length and its much wider than the rival weenies. If anyone has any experience with the older 1500 models I'd be interested to hear it.

Thoughts on SunEast? I know I've spotted their ovens in several recent UK press releases going to into new installations. Others inlcude JT and Vanstron, a few people (inc Zen) sell conveyors etc from them. I'm avoiding ovens like Essemtec or the long but suspiciously low profile desk mounted ones. Some of them would almost certainly work for everything I do today, but you have to cover tomorrow when you're about to rearrange your factory floor and spend a decent chunk of change.

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#83084

Buying a new Reflow | 26 July, 2019

I had the 1500S last year, we felt it was to big for our use and sold it. I just sold a brand new 1707EXL a few weeks ago for half price.

When I visited their booth at SMTA I asked their sales director why they don't make small ovens anymore (998/1098) and they said everyone wants more zones. I told them about our use and how we use the little essemtecs and they said they can customize anything I want but they looked bigger than essemtec ro-300fc. I like the little essemtecs because they only need 25 amps of power, easy to program and use 5kwh during normal operation and have been fine for our use with unleaded paste. Ours is a simple application.

I think most people prefer one longer line over 2-3 small ones. With smaller ovens I can fit more lines. Being 25 amps is good for us as we can throw it anywhere on our production floor.

I will be concerned for speed once I get my dream machine Fuji NXT III M3 with 4 turret h24g heads doing 200k cph. Otherwise essemtec says it can do 700 boards in an 8 hour shift.

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#83100

Buying a new Reflow | 30 July, 2019

Well, so far Heller certainly scores highly on the balance of price, features & brand reputation (Never heard anyone be mean about them). Be interesting to see what the "cheaper" brands offer, so far they're a bit sleepy.

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#83352

Buying a new Reflow | 27 August, 2019

I would recommend an ERSA reflow oven from Blundell - With regards which model to choose i've put together an article here - http://www.surfacemountprocess.com/reflow-soldering-process.html

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#83356

Buying a new Reflow | 27 August, 2019

There is no formula out there that chooses a model for low volume high mix. Every oven can manage the throughput, which leaves us with cost, servicing, flexibility and reliability.

Ersa Pros: Longer heated length than the ovens I am comparing it to.

Built like a tank, german.

Blundell are located in a sensible place

Blundell have sold them for years and know the product

Some nice software features available

Cheaper than some European rivals, assuming you can even get them in the UK.

Cons : Its a much bigger oven

It uses more power (but proprtionally to its longer process)

It costs more than a Heller (true for most)

I've seen better warranties

Some of those optional software features are free with other ovens

There is no mesh or combination option

Other: The zones are bigger than the other ovens (they'd be 8/10 zones for this length).

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#83365

Buying a new Reflow | 29 August, 2019

If quality or Reliability is the key.... BTU, Soltec Vitronics..Rehm... If it is the money ...probably not these brands.....:)

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#83366

Buying a new Reflow | 29 August, 2019

Is heller on that list? Am I the only one who wants smallest coneyorized oven, with lowest zones, using least amount of power, very reliable and repeatable. I currently have essemtecs and an older vitronic 4 zone oven.

There is a 2015 rehm oven near me for sale as a parts oven. It has a lot of zones. Kind of surprised me that a newer oven being scrapped for parts. Not that many rehm ovens in US.

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#83367

Buying a new Reflow | 29 August, 2019

> If quality or Reliability is the key.... BTU, <BR> > Soltec Vitronics..Rehm... If it is the money <BR> > ...probably not these brands.....:) <BR> <BR>

Well I have a Rehm Quote (Ouch!) and an Electrovert quote which while not a Soltec, does essentially come from the same place. I would imagine the Soltec Centurion costs something similar to the Rehm and that is 35% more than a BTU.

There really isn't a significant cost obstacle to BTU tho' if you take a Heller, add on a lifetime blowers&heater warranty to match BTU they are really very close. If you don't add that warranty however, Heller is by far the cheapest "big brand" oven you can buy.

I did a search on here and found several comments suggesting Hellers blowers were a fairly common point of failure. However ovens last for years and that means those comments could apply to ovens built 10 or 15 years ago rather than something that's true today. It would be interesting to hear non cherry picked experiences from users of the current models (which appear to secretly be called the Mk5.5)

@Reckless Like anyone else who does some contract work, what I want from an oven is confidence that it has the thermal capacity to properly reflow all the very varied and unpredictable work that might come my way. To do that it needs a decent heated length and multiple zones. Yes lots of designs can go into a 3 zone oven and come out looking just fine, but that isn't the same as being able to say the board profile achieved is a good match for the components on the board. Several of the big brand ovens actually don't come in a length small enough for me to comfortably consider in our factory.

The Essemtec ovens are quite nice for what they are, but they are pin or mesh never both, both is my preferred option for flexibility.

I suspect in the Us just like over here you won't see lots of Rehms as they are expensive and mostly popular in automotive/aerospace as they like the options for crazy amounts of closed loop control, sensors & logging. There are less of these things on some of the other ovens.

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#83368

Buying a new Reflow | 30 August, 2019

The Heller blower motors are pretty good, and even when they do go on old models it's usually a cheap motor start capacitor available from RS/Farnell/Mouser>Digikey.

Not all BTUs are rock solid if you are buying used. The old VIP's were a brilliant piece of engineering, but the early Pyramax's not so solid.

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