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SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder

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Hey all, I've made a post in the past about us expanding to... - Feb 22, 2020 by kyleh04  

#84514

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 22 February, 2020

Hey all,

I've made a post in the past about us expanding to a new space, but I wanted to do a new post with specific questions.

We currently have a DEK 265, Phillips Opal Xii, and a Heller 1500. Our main reason for expanding is to have a lead-free capable oven and a selective solder for through-holes.

I really would like to keep the cost of this expansion low, until we get additional lead free and THT jobs to utilize the new machines.

I will be getting the new equipment from the same used equipment distributor we got everything from before. The prices are a bit high, but the service we receive is worth it x100.

For the selective solder, there is an EBSO SPA400 that has a full lead-free pot for ~$10K.

The ovens we are limited as we only have 240V, and it seems the larger 8+ zone ovens are mostly 480V. Either a 2011 Vitronics Soltec XPM3i-820 for ~$20K or a 2001 Heller 1808EXL for ~$10K.

So basically I have two questions:

1) Thoughts on the EBSO selective solder? I eventually plan on getting both a wave and selective, but right now we have some double-sided boards, so we need the selective first.

2) Is the Vitronics worth a $10k+ premium over the older Heller? Of course, it will be a better oven, but with the same amount of zones, at the end of the day, it's just an oven?

Being able to save that money on the oven will allow us to add a second pick and place sooner, so it definitely helps to save costs. We do a ton of prototype and super small batch runs, so planning on a MyCronic/MyData in the future.

Thanks as always!

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#84520

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

If your ovens are 480V you may be able to convert them back to 240V by changing out the elements? There are industrial suppliers for oven elements out there.

sarason

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#84522

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

> If your ovens are 480V you may be able to convert
> them back to 240V by changing out the elements?
> There are industrial suppliers for oven elements
> out there.

sarason

Yes that is true, our dealer can do that, but due to cost/time he suggested we use a oven that is already setup for 240V.

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#84524

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

You might be able to get a step up transformer although I would not recommend that unless it is a good solution for you. What is the input voltage to your facility? It is probably 600V (or something close). If so then you could get a step down transformer which would be the better solution.

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#84526

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

So do you guys really not like running oven's this large at 240V? Or do you just not like the two ovens specifically that I mentioned?

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#84527

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

It looks like one oven is 10years newer than the other, so if we assume same maintenance routine you should get another 10 years if life on it. On the TH side, you know your board complexity - for me wave have much more value than a Selective. Selective tuning will probably eat the small work orders that you build before you finish the program.

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#84528

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 24 February, 2020

> It looks like one oven is 10years newer than the
> other, so if we assume same maintenance routine
> you should get another 10 years if life on it. On
> the TH side, you know your board complexity - for
> me wave have much more value than a Selective.
> Selective tuning will probably eat the small work
> orders that you build before you finish the
> program.

100% agree with you on the wave vs selective. I much rather have a wave for the small jobs. But right now we have a few double-sided boards. So we'll have to deal with the programming hassle of the selective until we can get a wave as well.

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#84535

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

FYI, in my experience, programming and fine tuning select solder is usually quick and painless.

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SMTA-Alex

#84541

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

The ovens you're looking at need 100 amps of 480, 200 amps of 240. Do you have that extra power available in your building? You can go with a step-up transformer to convert 240V to 480V. My understanding is that ovens run more efficiently on 480V.

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @ SMTASMTA

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#84542

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

Oh no, it's rated at a max of 120A at 208V. We have the power for that.

At least the Vitronics is, not sure on the Heller.

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#84544

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

One thing that you do not want to do is run a 240V oven at 220V. One place I worked a few lifetimes ago had an oven that had five top zones and only two on the ends on the bottom. It was something like 440V but supplied with 408V. It took a long long time to heat up.

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#84545

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

LOL! Good to know! Yeah, we have 3Ph with a high leg, so technically at 240V, so we should be fine.

Since nobody has really mentioned a real preference with the ovens, is it kinda like what I thought at first? That an 8 zone oven is an 8 zone oven. They both should work either way. One might have better features and be newer, but that's it?

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#84546

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

In my experience Heller makes a great, no frills oven that just runs. The only Vitronics oven I've dealt with was over-engineered and gave me nothing but headaches.

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#84548

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

What we did not talk about is Mycronic machine. Great choice for small batches.

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#84549

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 25 February, 2020

> What we did not talk about is Mycronic machine.
> Great choice for small batches.

Yeah? That's what I keep hearing! Would use that exclusively for small runs, with the Opal for larger batches.

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#84554

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | 26 February, 2020

THese you can have single or dual head, long for a lot of feeder positions, with bigger or smaller work area based on your needs. Feeders concept is very clever and setups are quick. A lot can be done on the fly on the machine, compared to other brands where you should download through line computer every time you make change.

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#84728

SMT line expansion - new oven and selective solder | today at 12:26 PM

We have 3 Heller 1800 units. They run great. Our building is 208 3ph. One of ours is running 480v, so we bought a transformer to convert.

I am not familiar with the other oven you mentioned.

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