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Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions?

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I'm looking for some general opinions on Mycronic and Juki S... - Feb 08, 2023 by MellyBean  

#88920

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 8 February, 2023

I'm looking for some general opinions on Mycronic and Juki SMT machines. The company I work for is negotiating a deal with a customer for a massive number of boards (compared to what we usually produce). We're looking into getting a whole new pick and place machine to accommodate the production needs (and potentially a full line setup, if I can convince management), as our current machine (Manncorp MC391V) isn't likely going to be up for the task.

I'm looking at Juki and Mycronic and I wanted some general opinions on the two brands from people who are experienced using them; things like ease of use, customer service, availability of used/refurbished parts, what you like/dislike about the machines, etc.

At this point in time, I don't actually know much about the board we would be making. If we get the deal, we will be designing the board ourselves so I don't actually know what I'd specifically need from the machine. About the only thing I know for certain is that we would need to produce 200+ a day (which is quite a lot for my company). We don't generally make very complicated boards so maybe a maximum of 50 parts between both sides?

Anyway, any input would be much appreciated!

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#88921

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 8 February, 2023

You'll get as many opinions as you get people who respond to this, and none of them will be wrong :D

My career has been on Mycronic machines, so, I know them best. I think Mycronic are hands down the best machines for high-mix, low-volume production. The feeder clips easily handle cut tape, change over is greatly improved, and the fact that you can pull magazines out of the machine without stopping production to me is huge. I also believe some of the on-machine tools are unmatched in the industry...manually placing parts, reviewing the boards with the downward looking camera, learning new packages, etc.

I haven't had a lot of exposure to Juki, but, in this application, I would probably rate the machine as better for higher volume/lower mix production. I expect the placement rate will be faster. I have heard good things about the machines, and if you're looking to run one product at relatively high volume, you likely won't go wrong choosing the Juki.

As for what I don't like about Mycronics? The cost of replacement parts from them is, in my opinion, pretty high. Service is generally good, until you need a tech to come on site. The techs do great work, but, if you're paying for travel, you'll find that they'll come on-site to diagnose your issue, then you'll need to buy the parts (and overnight them if you're line-down), and then need the tech back to install the part. Not because you can't install it, the machines are fairly easy to work on; but, if you install it, and it doesn't fix the problem, you own the part. If the tech installs it, and it doesn't fix the problem, you can return the part. I had this issue repeatedly when I was in New England, and the tech lived closer to my shop than he did to the Mycronic office. I still had to pay mileage from their office, and he still had to go into the office before he could come to the shop. Mildly annoying, to say the least.

I don't have enough experience with after-sale service/parts on the Juki to comment.

Cheers, ..rob

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#88924

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 8 February, 2023

I would lean towards Juki. I worked with both almost 20 years. The Midas heads, Hydra heads, and parts cameras are quirky on the Micronic machines. Additionally, there are drawbacks to the board moving in the Y axis during placement. The Juki's just run and it is very rare for them to break. I am referencing 2060, 2070, 2080, 3010, 3020. There are lots of used and aftermarket parts available for them and not Micronic. The support from BOTH companies becomes sketchy once the honeymoon is over. If you buy used, prepare to take it in the dumper for service and support.

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#88927

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 9 February, 2023

Mycronic and Juki are better machines.

This requires you to choose the most suitable machine for you according to your product.

You can ask about our GOLDLAND company, we are an SMT equipment solution company. I will inform my colleague Quinn Luo, he is an expert in this field, and he will give you the most reasonable SMT equipment procurement plan for your reference based on your market and your products. All this is free for you program.

You can contact him: Quinn Luo, Email: sales07@goldlandsmt.com,

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#89090

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 17 March, 2023

Your request looks like a low volume machine will do it. Juki and Mycronic are both reputable manufacturers that make good quality machines. I did work with both and can say mainly good things about these machines. Now some interesting things to consider. Space requirements - Juki i smaller footprint, but Mycronic parts are all loaded from the front of the machine. Mycronic is very flexible in production - you can throw more feeders to the machine line anytime you want in any locations you want. Juki is very quiet machine. Mycronic machine has pumps that generate their own vacuum, while Juki will need external source. Both have clever feeder concepts. Mycronic tape feeder idea is unique, where you don't need cover tape to load a part.

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#89092

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 17 March, 2023

If just choosing from Mycronic & Juki, I agree with Sr. Tech

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#89118

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

On average year how much problems did you have with mychronic? They have some features that are appealing to me that other manufacturers don't do: front feeder loading system, fit through a 36" door, no air compressor make it desirable for office type setups along with being able to change feeders on the fly and adding pcbs to table during production. I am comparing mydata my12 to assembleon mg1 which is more than 5x the price. I'm willing to pay more to avoid headaches in long run on the other hand its cheaper to have 2 MY12s then 1 MG1. I heard not so nice things about Juki 2060/3010 series.

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#89122

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

We replaced at least 4 Hydra heads, 3 midas heads, vacuum pumps, line scan cameras under warranty back in the day.

I have worked with Juki 2060 and 3010 series. Whomever is telling you they are bad machines doesn't know.

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#89125

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

I worked with 7 years of Mydata & another 8 years with Juki. Most of the small issues are avoidable if you do your maintenance right. From normal wear and tears, I would say Mydata would be more frequent breakdowns than Juki. For Juki, I agree with Sr. Tech 2060 and newer models seem to be very decent.

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#89126

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

Wow, in how many years? Is it possible you got a lemon or an early model?

How do Jukis compare to Yamaha/Assembleon? The older models seem to be rated slower.

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#89128

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

All of these components were replaced under warranty. I cant remember how long that was. I was working with the very first My12's. This machine was never reliable and there was always something broken. Anywhere I have ever been that had MY series machines had frequent breakages. Bad designs IMO. For example, the big blue ribbon cables that control the X-wagon electronics are "consumables" : When they get a short in them the machines go haywire.

Can't speak on Yamaha. Had Juki for 15 years and the only thing I ever saw really fail was the motors for the bottom magazine on the MTC's. I am not a huge fan of laser centering but once you gain an understanding they work pretty well.

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#89132

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

I believe I was working with the early MY12 model too. Yes, the X-wagon blue ribbon cable were showing wear and tear very fast. Another frequent break downs were the center-jaw, ribbon broke. Most of the Mydata repairs can be done inhouse with spare part, no need to call for support. Actually, Juki's laser centering is not that hard to understand; just set the laser height to measure the most squared part of the component. I fixed a lot of SOT reject issue due to laser errors.

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#89133

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 March, 2023

Yeah laser centering didn't sound as reliable to us either. I have heard jokes about mydata but wasn't sure if they were serious. It seems like they have a huge following in US esp when compared to Yamaha/Assembleon. Did anything improve when they updated the platform to my100? You would think people will learn from their mistakes and improve.

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#89135

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 25 March, 2023

The part that sticks out in the rear for conveyors can that be removed if running in manual pcb loading only?

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#89138

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 27 March, 2023

My experiences mirror most of the thread. Even though the Juki were nothing fancy, they also never gave me any major issues in the 6 years I worked with them.

6 years of MyData and I can't say the same. A lot more downtime and a lot more instances of replaced parts.

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#89141

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 27 March, 2023

I haven't run either. However when were looking at machines; MyData (MY100) was exactly the class of machine that fitted our use case. There were plenty of installations with comparable use cases to ours and plenty of those have multiple lines and are still running (often updated) MyData lines 12+ years later. We actually ended up choosing Essemtec more feeders fitted on a smaller footprint. I also thought configuring a flexible loadout of camera choices and Agilis feeder types was perhaps more complex and expensive than they would like you to think.

For the OPs need for a line to handle a specific higher workload than their small machine can handle, I would have thought a MyData was a poor choice, particularly when there is an inferred budget limitation. There are more 3rd party consumables/feeders for your Juki/Samsung/Yamaha machines than there are for niche brands like Essemtec/Europlacer/MyData. You buy those brands because you need what they bring, those reasons are shrinking as software improves and strip handling feeders (or feederfinger?) become available for other platforms.

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#89182

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 9 April, 2023

I can speak from the Yamaha YV88X side (aka Emerald-X). We are an engineering company and recently started to use our SMT line. Absolutely love it and can run the machine with ease. Have assembled thousands of boards since COVID started. It is an older model that runs from dos but this has not been a limitation to us. Most of our parts of our many designs are 0402 or larger. We have tested and placed even 0201 and 01005 using special nozzles out of Shenzhen ($30 usd each). The support from Trans-tec USA (Yamaha reps) has been amazing. We plan to visit Nepcon in the fall in Shenzhen to view their latest machines to upgrade. The small complaint is that we wish could build faster. We run at 80% speed and assembled 200 pcbs in a few hours with 8 mounts per board. This was yesterday for the backside caps (0603) of a bga fitted board. Lots of spare parts are available in the market in China. Recommend to speak with Trans-tec (Bin is our rep in Canada) for their recommendation of a machine or line. They have faster machines with AI and multi-lane feeding support. Their smt printer is spoken of highly by Koki and others. As a plan B, can supply quality smt shop PCBA names in Shenzhen if it is practical for you to consider. For our SMT and tht boards, they are averaging around $2usd or less for the assembly fee after tooling setup fees. They are iso medical and auto certified shops. We use both to keep up with our spike in product demands.

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#89197

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 13 April, 2023

I had the 200 models and these were pretty good. The one thing I don't like about this machine is that you can take out feeder bank, while head is in motion - very easy way to break machine head. Besides that, machines are great for running low /mid volume production. The best changeover approach and a lot of flexibility. Most of the problems mentioned here are now part of the maintenance schedule.

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#89199

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 14 April, 2023

Has anyone run 0201 parts on mydata my9e/12e/etc series with hydra extended range head? Is it as reliable/quick as 0402? As our boards are shrinking would love to run 0201 on everything if not a headache; scared of putting myself into danger zone. I would think being near invisible it would be easy to place.

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#89232

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 20 April, 2023

Mycronic is very expensive. But it does have a lot of good options and feeder count.

JUKI I have always found to be limited to number of feeders and flexibility of individual machines.

If you are upgrading from MannCorp there may be better options.

The ASM e-by series is one, however it is EOL.

Yamaha have a good choice, I just can't remember the series name.

It really comes down to what will work for you. Entry level is a very limited market right now.

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#89233

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 20 April, 2023

Did they make any big changes from the MY9e/12e series to MY100+? It looks fundamentally the same machine just gotten bigger over time.

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#89234

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 20 April, 2023

When I was looking 3 years ago MY was much pricier than "equivalent" ASM or Yamaha equipment. They literally priced themselves out of consideration and they had been my top choice.

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#89236

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 21 April, 2023

I had quotes for a MY100 -14 a Juki KE-1080 and an iPulse M6ez back in 2011 and at that point all those machines were about the same price with a light feeder package. The MyData however was the only one configured with smart feeders, a tray feeder and a component verifier in the price. But prices, exchange rates and audience shifts a tiny bit with every machine update. There was an "offer" applied which had something to do with Hydra being free or heavily discounted, who on earth would buy one without it is anyones guess.

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#89247

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 22 April, 2023

"I also believe some of the on-machine tools are unmatched in the industry...manually placing parts, reviewing the boards with the downward looking camera, learning new packages, etc."

What do you mean by manually placing parts and reviewing boards with downward looking camera? Can mydatas do a check to make sure no missing components?

I'm trying to find out about what software capabilities everyone loves about the mydatas.

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#89252

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 24 April, 2023

I strongly suggest staying away from used Mydata/Micronic. I worked with them daily for over 15 years. They are not reliable.

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#89253

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 25 April, 2023

Did you run 1 shift or 2? I'm not discounting what you are saying, I do believe you had a nightmare with yours. If they are not reliable how did they sell over 5,000+ machines mostly in US?

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#89259

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 25 April, 2023

Because I guess for almost years nobody else even came close to having an overlapping sales pitch. However, today, most brands have a "flex" placer, feeders that can take strips of tape and software options that help in some way with running smaller batches.

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#89260

Mycronic vs. Juki: Your Opinions? | 25 April, 2023

So I visited a high tech factory that exclusively used mydata for last 20 years. They started with 1 my9, moved to 3, currently at 8 my200/300s which the whole company was proud of. They love them and credit mydata with the reason they were able to grow. They had 3 my9es which ran 2 shifts with only 2 issues in 16 years (mot controller cards). I was surprised to hear how reliable the machines were for them. I saw their assembly lines and the front loaded designs made it much easier to run multiple lines with two machines each.

I asked the head SMT manager why he never looked at proper chip shooters and he felt that they can't do quick changeovers. They do 36 changeovers in one day and need to ship orders same day they receive them. They had very large component mix and the few operators were moving around slow.

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