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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry.

John Butile


Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 21 March, 2002

Is everyone happy with his or her Panasonic, Fuji and Siemens machines? Do you realize what you have done?

I just wanted to thank everyone who bought an Omni A,B,C machine from Universal Instruments... At least you gave the Americans a chance. It is a shame that all the others had to go out and give their US dollars to the Japanese and Germans.

Sure, the CP-3 was a better machine at the time, but guess what... Since the Americans were not funded by Americans, we no longer play in the industry. I hope all of you that gave up on the Americans feel real good about your factory as you look out at all that foreign equipment and realize that you sold out our manufacturing jobs to the Asians and the Germans.

Of course now it is too late... Since you did not support Universal, and Multitronics, and Quad Systems and Contact Systems, they are all gone or fading fast. It is a shame that you could not support your neighbors. We could be providing you with some exceptional solutions right about now. Don�t smirk, the reason the Americans had substandard equipment is because you refused to work together.

That�s OK, No problem. Just don't cry at the next APEX when no one speaks English.

So how does it feel to be a pawn? You knew each time that you placed those million dollar purchase orders that you were playing into their hands. You had to know� and now there is nothing left for the Americans. You have been bought, but you had to know.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 21 March, 2002

Don't forget Mydata, the Swedes that dominate the lower end and flex placement market now. Yeah, many bought the Omni from old UIC but what did they develop? "Support", the equip mfg?s are suppose to support the customer. UIC got a lot of good constructive feedback from Omni users. What did they do? Come up with the Omni II, another disaster. Look at them now with the GSM. That's it. It?s all they have. UIC is basically a one dimensional placement machine supplier. Our companies seem to be too interested in fast profits and lack the insight and commitment to design a competitive machine for the long haul. Not to mention the negative corporate culture- owners looking for big profits and subsidiaries on a choker leash from the parent (oh, you can?t spend that much money on development!). This is not the case w/ the Euros and Asians, they spend more on development and wait longer for the returns. In the 80's it was the Japanese invasion. Now it?s the Euro invasion. Our equipment companies basically are not challenging the Euros and Asians. Don't blame our users that want to buy the best machine. Quad, Amistar (remember the PlaceMaster) and Contact Systems....are you kidding? Rinky dink shite. Its one failed product after another with these guys. ?Support?, ha!

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 21 March, 2002

I feel like such a "nit-wit" now.

Diversity is what makes America great. Freedom of choice.

The last I remember Multitronics is a UK based company ..OPS thats right Multitronics was purchased by a Bermuda based company... silly me.

Let me guess..You own a Motorola Cell phone (built in China), an IBM computer (built in canada) and a Chevy Malibu (a Toyota product).

Lets not forget Amistar (oh thats right they private labeled TENYRU from asia).

I guess I feel bad driving a BMW (made in Alabama where there are 1,000s of people employed)

I feel great looking out at my factory at Siemens Equipment knowing this German equipment I paid $500k for is running no stop error free Netting me more $$. More product it pumps out the more US $ I get and better I feel. I can sleep at night knowing if it was not for Siemens running in my factory.....the 100 people I employ would be out on the street. If you do not have competition you never know where you stand.

I guess you are writing this from your prison Library with Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVee (oh thats right he is currently potting soil) on either side of you.

I feel great being a pawn .....If it was not for the pawns 250 years ago leaving Europe and coming to America.....where would we be??

Hopefully me drinking German beer will not cause American (Coors) beer companies to fold.

Also the last I check English is the Global language

Disturbing knowing people like you can reproduce."Yuz Gots Perty White Teef, Squeal like a pig fer me"(Meanwhile Banjo Music plays in my head).

"The non-communist think of the Big picture Cal"

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 21 March, 2002

It could be that it's been a long time since Siemens has sold a machine. Is it true that they licensed that twirly head S20 wachajigger from UIC?

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Mike M


Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 25 March, 2002

Don't forget that the great American company UIC sells the wonderfull HSP machines, or are they Sanyo?

This message was posted via the Electronics Forum @

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 26 March, 2002

Siemens guys say they bought the rights to the twirly thingy (and everything else) outright. I got the chance to work with both an early verson from UIC, and the next Siemens improvement on it. UIC should have been ashamed.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 26 March, 2002

bought a line from an American company once.

You couldn't miss it, all the machines were plastered with "Made with Pride in the USA" stickers. Was a great show of nationalism, stickers were nice and shiny too.

Too bad the machines didn't work when they came out of the crate. Too bad it took a tech 2 weeks to show up. Too bad that the machines were never able to live up to the placement capabilites as per the contract.

But we had lots of spare time to wonder how they made those stickers so shiny........


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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 26 March, 2002

Is this revisionist history? Have you been breathing deeply, while eating corn doodles? Let me knock-down a couple of Zoloft. OK. Here�s the way I remember things � * UIC, Dynapert, and Amistar made the best PTH insertion equipment on the planet. No one purchased equipment from anyone else. * When SMT began to gain acceptance UIC, Dynapert, and Amistar told us to forget about that SMT stuff, that it would never be mainstream, and to focus on PTH. They concentrated on PTH machinery development. Other equipment manufacturers focused on other things. * To their credit, UIC realized that the bright point of light was not the end of the tunnel and focused their resources to develop a world-class SMT placement machine. * Dynapert and Amistar, being the weaker sisters of the PTH insertion world, never recognized their miscalculation, never recovered, and became distributors of other companies� machines. * Early on, Quad developed a rinky-dink SMT placement machine, but struggled to capitalize on their unique position. In the first 2/3 of their life Quad Systems built machines that were not very good. The Quadstar and 4C were two exceptions. In the last 1/3 of their life they built pretty good machines, but by then, their flawed approach to marketing and pricing and their inability to escape the past sins of their product development became millstones to their ever developing a substantial market presence. * Contact Systems built the best semi-automated, guided PTH assembly machine on the planet. After 10 years of declining business, while watching the SMT world pass them by, in the mid-1990s they developed an entry machine with which to go to battle in a zero margin market against Quad and the lower end Japanese and Korean machines. Stop. * Multitronics??? They never built placement machines. Initially, they were a US distributor for Royonics, Europlacer, and a donut filling machine made in Chicago and a couple of years ago they purchased UK-based Dynapert.

What we buyers have done? What are you talking about? I can generalize too. It�s the sales-types that: * Worked for these companies that caused this situation. * Were so focused on getting their BIG commission check that they did a lousy job of informing their management about their customers desires and needs. * Never made their bosses understand the need to develop better and more market oriented products. * Rushed products to market early, before they well fully developed and troubleshot. * Concocted and told their customers fictional stories about the capabilities and capacity of their machines. * Created the adversarial environment by telling stories about other suppliers in hopes of undermining them and winning a sale. * Talked their management into cutting margins in-order to get the sale to such a degree that there was no money left for proper product development.

We purchase to best equipment that we can afford. We determine the �best� equipment by assessing the capabilities of the equipment available to us. We prefer purchasing from local suppliers, but that is only one element in the equation that we use to determine the best equipment.

As a case in point: I bought a Panasert line in 1991, because they had a good machine and a functional CIM. Universal had a good machine, but their CIM was in beta. Siemens and Fuji had good machines, but few CIM capabilities. Philips and TDK didn�t make it past the first round because they had no CIM capabilities. Quad, Dynapert, Sanyo, and Amistar had a variety of technical problems that excluded them early in the analysis.

Now, I understand APEX was a bummer this year. Please put your energy into putting together a top-notch line card and selling the hell out us.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 26 March, 2002

Your history is pretty good Dave although Multitroniks never had anything to do with Royonics. Multi was formerly Ragen who also made a light guided semi automatic PTH machine. They dabbled in SMT after changing their name to Multitroniks and taking on the Europlacer line. I beleive they designed and manufactured some lower end machines (LVS1?) that they are still trying to sell along with the Dynapert (Intelliplace) machines.

As for Contact Systems, it seems as though they are the only company never to sell out. They are alive and kicking with a new model pick and place machine that on paper is a winner (model C7?). Maybe the last American hope?

As for all you foreign machine buyers, if you are EMS providers your day will come as well. By not buying American you have not funded the R and D of these companies. Your focus on the bottom line versus partnering with American sources has made you money for now. Should I shed a tear for you when your business moves overseas as well? When your customers finally realize how small the globe is and how they can get better pricing, delivery, AND quality from overseas suppliers, you may be singing a different tune.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 26 March, 2002

Let's see......I sell Japanese assembly equipment, my wife drives a Japanese car, I drive a German car, my notebook is Japanese and my camera is Japanese. Why? I appreciate quality and in my opinion, buying SMT equipment from somewhere other than Japan or Europe is crazy and ignorant. And by the way, if this downturn lasts much longer, Contact will join Quad as a distant memory as well.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 27 March, 2002

Alas we as Americans are destined to be innovators and consumers. However, we do not consume what we innovate. We wait for the Euro and Japanese conglomerates to take our ideas, mass produce them, and then sell them back to us. They are fueled by our dollars. These dollars enable them to refine our ideas in their factories before selling them to the rest of the world. The big misconception is "bigger is better". People have preconceived ideas that smaller American companies products are lower quality. Unless you have tried both you are not qualified to comment.

By the way, I drive an Audi and I love it. I love the Quattro so much I don't care if the brake job I just had done cost me $1100. I don't even think about the malfunctioning sunroof what with the windshield leaking and all. Maybe we buy these Euro things just to impress our friends. Gotta go, I'm getting a call on my Samsung cell phone. If I wiggle the hinge just right I might even be able to talk to the person on the other end.

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Ioan Tempea


Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 27 March, 2002

Just a question: have you ever tried to transfer programs between 2 identical MPM printers, or between 2 identical CAMALOT Geminis? Well, you'll be surprised to find out that you have to spend 15 to 30 min tweaking them on the second machine.

And then, you might want to see what the fixturing of the zero sensor for the Y axis of the vision gantry of the MPM UP3000 looks like.

And all the above sells at the same price like Fuji equipment, where you write the program once and you send it on any model, with no tweaking required. And on top of it they put the sensors on micrometric screws, so that you adjust their position a little more accurately than you do it on the Contact, where you tap the sensors "gently" with the wrench.

No R&D bucks needed to fix this, just a little more concern to hire engineers instead of people that pick it by the ear.

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 27 March, 2002

We do need to buy American. I only run Universal Instruments machines in my facility. Mind you the chip shooter is manufactured by Sanyo but the GSM machines are made in NY. I have purchased over 200 systems over the years while working for a major Contract house. Many from Japan, a few from Germany and some from the US. I can tell you this. The Universal GSM was by far the most stable machine. It was easy to run and program. Parts never have a long lead time and the support from UIC was great. Even if you have prototype or small job's to rum why by a low cost machine from overseas when you can buy used GSM's with feeders for about 35K each. You can have the best machine ever built for short money. I only whish the company I worked for allowed me to buy GSM's in 94 instead of 98. We would have made more money and would have been more productive. Freedom of choice is part of what makes America great. You must always have that freedom. I just hope when we as Americans have the choice to buy a quality American product we do it. God bless Continental, American and Delta airlines for now buying an all Boeing fleet instead of the socialist built Airbus.

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CC to myself


Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 27 March, 2002

Can american R&D cooperate with customer and industry needs? can the education system produce world class engineers? Can freedom american style even remember what cooperation and team work is? It's a dog eat dog out there and eveybody is out to protect what little individual power (freedom american style) they have. to survive as a company or as a nation, you must all pull together in the same direction. Instead, it's a "free for all" and nobody is paying attention to what the others are doing. That's why many ideas are born in america, only to be developped elsewhere. that's also why Europe and Japan have their own high-speed train and you are still studying if it is worth building...

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Does anyone care if Americans supply equipment to our industry. | 28 March, 2002

Did anyone check where UIC aquired there cameras from. The control cards - where did the components come from. I would go on, however.......

Sorry to say - there is nothing "Made in America". Many items are "Manufactured in America" with compoents from all over the world.

We could debate the virtue of that forever

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