MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402??

#88452

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 14 October, 2022

How reliable are TM feeders for 0402 placements? I have a board with 2000+ 0402s that I need to run daily. I don't need agilis feeders for change overs as we use less than 50 feeders total.

#88456

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 17 October, 2022

I would say not very reliable. The component separator spring, pick point adjustment, and magazine have to be perfect. Your nozzles have to be perfect etc..etc...

My general advice is move to a different platform if possible. I have worked extensively with 0402's and Mydata's and they can be a pain. The problem with your 2000+ placement board is if one 0402 flies off on the board, you end up with a train wreck.

#88457

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 17 October, 2022

Thanks, what about the newer agilis feeders? Fully agree one 0402 missing and its a train wreck.

#88463

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 18 October, 2022

I have very limited experience with agilis but I know they use them currently. I am definitely not a fan of the older Hydra heads. There were many problems with them mechanically and with the camera.

#88474

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 19 October, 2022

The Agilis feeders are much more reliable than the old TM feeders. You can tweak the TMs a little bit, but, it can be a pain. Agilis have better repeatability, and built in y axis correction for 0402 and smaller parts.

On the newer machines (My series), keeping nozzles clean, and maintenance up, I had no issues with 0402's or 0201's. We played with 01005's but, never in production. I had old TPs and TM feeders placing 0402's, but, there was higher loss than 0603s.

Cheers, ..rob

#88476

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 19 October, 2022

Are the TM feeders ok for parts bigger than 0402? No major loss? The mydata machines I am looking at seem to have pretty high mispicks compared to other solutions on the counter.

#88477

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 19 October, 2022

The only time we dealt with "major" loss related to the feeders was when they were out of maintenance. Kept in good shape, sure there's loss; but, I never considered it to be major.

But, that is subjective, of course.

In the end, in my mind, it comes down to what you need the machines to do. I haven't found a better option yet for high mix/low volume than the My's. Yamaha had a "no splice" feeder option that was intriguing to me, but, I only saw it at a show, and never got to use it in a shop.

There are other machines that are faster, and work better in say a higher volume/lower mix environment. But, for cut tapes, the ability to remove parts without stopping a build, and the ability to easily place/confirm a single part at a time were keys for me when I was running a high mix proto shop.

Cheers, ..rob

#88478

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 20 October, 2022

Ultimately you are trying to deal with technology that is 25+ years old. The Hydras and TM magazines of these days were not robust and functioned mediocre at best when they were brand new. Even if you use Agilis feeders the nozzles and the cameras are still flakey.

If you want reliable 0402 placement on a board that has 2K placements, a MY9 would not be my choice.

#88479

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 20 October, 2022

What about MY100? Its based on the same high speed hydra head just two of them. Do you not recommend those as well? Originally, I was looking at a MY9 before spending on a MY100dx. Certain things mydata do make it attractive but im a low mix, high volume user. The other option is a Yamaha YS12 but have to import it, same price as a used MY100. I prefer mechanical feeders as they are usually less maintenance.

#88480

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 20 October, 2022

I have no experience with the MY100.

Personally, I'm not a fan of platforms where the PCB is not stationary.

Mechanical feeders typically require more maintenance than electronic.

Yamaha is one of the few I haven't worked with. It is my understanding that they are very expensive and have a somewhat limited install base in the US.

If you have any option, I would suggest the top 3 (Fuj,Pana,ASM) for low mix high volume. You wont be disappointed and your ROI will be quickly realized when you arent reworking boards or troubleshooting equipment problems.

#88481

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 20 October, 2022

As much as I love MyData machines, if you are low mix high volume, they may not be the best solution. They have their place in the mix, but, I believe their greatest value is in high mix environments.

Not to say that the My's won't do the work, they will. But, CPh rates will be higher on the other big guys, Panasonic, Universal, Yamaha, ASM, etc. If you're looking for higher throughputs, you'll be better served by one of those guys.

Does anyone do mechanical feeders anymore? As far as I am aware, everyone has moved over to electronic feeders for better control of the steps and component centering in the pick area. Admittedly, I'm a couple years removed from assembly operations, and haven't looked at machines in awhile.

Are you strictly looking at used third party machines? Might be worth talking to the reps on a new machine...prices will be higher, of course, but, you'll get the training, maintenance, and support that way. Sometimes, you can get deals from them on demo machines, or refurbs as well.

Cheers, ..rob

#88482

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 20 October, 2022

I looked into Fuji but heard some horror stories of $50k firmware upgrades to get older machines to work with latest software. ASM doesn't come off as small business friendly. Panasonic is a possibility, I prefer platforms that don't force you to pay extra for software to program the machines or try to control your entire operation.

We need real world reliable 25k cph minimum (40k preferred). Debating between older yamaha/assembleons or new YSM10. Love the 3ft wide concept with 46k cph max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhZj-LIQrc https://www.yamaha-motor-im.com/smt/mounters/ysm10

#88491

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 24 October, 2022

If you want that kind of CPH you will require a new machine or a multiple machine line.

The published rated speeds "under optimal conditions" are BS. Easily take 30% + off those numbers to get closer to real world.

Spoiltforchoice

#88493

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 24 October, 2022

Indeed, back in 2010 or so I had quotes for a MY100 with a Hydra head,as part of that I did get them to run a theoretical build time for one of our own boards. That came back @ just under 7k cph, it was a pretty sensible board with a nice range of things in 8, 12 & 16mm tape and only using about 4 Agilis cassettes. This would make it fairly optimal as the head would not need to travel all the way to the extremes of its length to pick a part and bring it back to the middle where the board is. I would expect a MyData to de-rate quicker with high BOM lines or spread out parts in non optimal locations. By contrast, other machines these days move the board closer to the feeder in question, or to that feeder Quadrant or split themselves into smaller modules.

Fuji NXT3s can be configured as absolute beasts and the Assembleon/K&H AX501 too, I've seen those crop up for sale world wide quite often. Automotive users like this kind of machine and tend to run on an 8 year machine cycle (so I'm told) and then replace.

#88494

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 24 October, 2022

yup...I've always ignored rated cph reported by the manufacturer.

In the case of MyData's, the only way to approach the rated cph is to load the same part in multiple feeders next to eachother, and place it a million times...that way Hydra can gang pick all tools at the same time. And even then, you're not likely to see the rated cph, depending on board configuration, etc.

With my last My100 around 2015 or so, if I could get 8k cph I was pretty happy. But, while slow, those speeds met the needs of the business I was running at the time (exceptionally high mix and exceptional low volume).

cheers, ..rob

AlexV

#88497

MYDATA MY9 HYDRASPEED TM FEEDERS FOR 0402 RELIABILITY?? | 25 October, 2022

> How reliable are TM feeders for 0402 placements?
> I have a board with 2000+ 0402s that I need to
> run daily. I don't need agilis feeders for
> change overs as we use less than 50 feeders
> total.

Standard TM8 magazines will not work for 0402s. They have a 4mm step. You need TM8FP (fine pitch). They have 2mm step increments. If they're properly adjusted and maintained, you should have no problems with 0402s. But, you can't use thick components in the FP magazine, like 0805s or 1206s in plastic tape.