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Printed Circuit Board Assembly & PCB Design Forum

SMT electronics assembly manufacturing forum.


Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ?

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#88203

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 21 July, 2022

I live in China and I need to buy a new SMD assembly line. I have 2 NEODEN7 machines that I've used in the last few years to assemble prototypes, they work fine only for prototypes. During that time I created a very practical way to transform Altium and Eagle files into CSV file for Neoden, in less than an hour I can put the components in the Yamaha feeders, generate and import the files and start assembling. I use VisualPlace software to help in generating the files, checking the assembly and PTH assembly, I also made some routines in Delphi to automate the generation of the files.

Now I'm in doubt between JUKI, YAMAHA and SAMSUNG. These are the top 3 brands with a lot of used equipment on the market. I have 100 pneumatic YAMAHA feeders, I could use it if I buy some 2009 YG/YV, but I know how poorly these feeders work, I prefer to buy electronic feeders to get a better result. The market for used machines here in China is crazy big, I can buy any and receive them in a few days, spare parts don't seem to be a big problem. My concern is to have the same agility to transform ALTIUM and EAGLE files into production quickly, as I have to assemble several different boards every day. I can't find clear and simple information about how to import files in JUKI, YAMAHA and SAMSUNG, English video, tutorial, manual. I didn't want to buy a machine and spend weeks wasting time with software.

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#88219

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 25 July, 2022

Assembleon (Yamaha Re-branded) machines have treated me well as I have 13 machines running any given day.

Manuals are readily available in English but are more clear if you can read the original Japanese or Chinese versions.

The biggest issue you will have is making programs from Altium to your board. What I have setup and figured out is an intermediate rotation offset database.

I take my Altium CSV files that have the following information: Internal Part #, footprint, X, Y, Rotation

Then run it through a program I created to lookup the "Footprint Offset" which is the delta between the way Altium's footprint is oriented and the way the machine expects the footprint to be oriented. After that offset is applied all is well and good in creating the program.

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#88221

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 25 July, 2022

I did something similar on Neoden machines. VisualPlace software helps a lot with this task, but the coordinates are never in the correct area where the PCB is, so I manually check the position of the first component and my software adjusts the position of all the others. In addition to coordinates, Neoden has the inconvenience of having to adjust feeder by feeder using the camera, to adjust the component's position in the feeder. I made a database with the feeders installed with 0603, 0805, 1206, to facilitate programming.

https://www.compuphase.com/visualplace/visualplace_en.htm

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#88222

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 26 July, 2022

Hi. Sharing a new contact we have from a company in Shenzhen that has a focus on refurb machines that may be worth a quick call:

www.qy-smt.com smtripathy[at]qy-smt.com They apparently setup up shops even on a rental basis! Unbelievable that they will setup a line for you to build your PCBAs and take it back weeks / months later after the job is finished. Respectively, they have many current models and also have access to older ones.

We have an older but very workable low hour Yamaha / Assembleon Emerald-X (YV88X). Had a very rough start due to the vendors from every machine we purchased. Now the line is running like a dream and we can manage any raised quirk. Now our only complaint is the speed of the PCBAs. We like the idea of reaching 100k CPH but this usually means the machine will be a chip shooter and not universal.

Universal machines appear to be ~50k-60k CPH tops. We are considering the YSM20 since, like you, we know the Yamaha s/w. The JUKI RX8 looks sweet but does not appear to handle the same depth of parts like the universal YSM20. As the heads are the turret style and low to the PCB to be assembled, there is a trade off on speed vs. component height. Personally do not care for anything with Samsung name but HANWA TECHWIN name is being thrown out a lot these days. Apparently lower cost, high tech, high speed and outselling the JUKI and Yamaha brands locally and overseas. However, a new piece of s/w to learn.

Curious on what you will settle on - do update this thread as we continue to shop.

BTW - If you are not in a rush - wait for NEPCON Shenzhen in October to kick the tires at the fair !!

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#88232

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 30 July, 2022

My program PCBSynergy does a conversion between Altium and Juki 700 series , 2000 series and even FX1R, Also yamaha VIOS.

It can be found at http://members.iinet.net.au/~sarason/" target="_blank">http://members.iinet.net.au/~sarason/ ALso lots of other stuff in there for making this job easy

sarason

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#88239

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 1 August, 2022

this software may help https://www.unisoft-cim.com/pcbplace.php >>> ProntoPLACE creates programs from CAD or Gerber or XY rotation and BOM files for setup of SMT Pick & Place, thru-hole, manusert & dispensing machines, and includes the basic features of ProntoVIEW-MARKUP. Most machines are supported such as Assembleon / Philips, Mydata / Mycronic, Juki, ASM / Siemens, Universal, Fuji, Contact Systems, Samsung, Quad, Europlacer, Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, Mirae, Essemtec, Yamaha, Hitachi, MultiTroniks, Amistar, Manncorp, Robotas, Autoronik-SMT, Dima, Dynapert, KME, Zevatech, Mamiya, Novastar, Ragen, TDK, Tenyru, Tescon, TWS Automation, etc.

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#88276

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 8 August, 2022

Try PCBSynergy - it exports files from Eagle (it supports others too) to Philips / Yamaha machines.

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#88313

Setup speed, Samsung, Yamaha or Juki ? | 18 August, 2022

yes ,i agree he said that Try PCBSynergy - it exports files from Eagle (it supports others too) to Philips / Yamaha machines.

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